Hes going to fit in to where he needs to fit in to accomplish what he needs to accomplish what is very essential to get by with, to be somebody. Author Norman Mailer, and others, have questioned why Ruby would have left his two beloved dogs in his car if he had planned on killing Oswald at police headquarters.The House Select Committee on Assassinations in its 1979 Final Report opined: Ruby's shooting of Oswald was not a spontaneous act, in that it involved at least some premeditation. discussion+glimpse of a life+links & readings+teacher's guide Oswald told Marina that killing Walker would have been like killing Hitler, so clearly Oswald imagined himself playing some kind of grand world-historical role, and it's noteworthy that the way in which he went about attempting to kill Walker was exactly the way he went about successfully killing John F. Kennedy. What do you mean? He went the following day, had the meeting. He told me about it, and I told him I'd go with him. FRONTLINE+wgbh+pbsi, web site copyright 1995-2014 And in this place, he would join this much larger-than-life cause, and he would break permanently with the United States, and he would live happily every after in the Soviet Union. I didn't press it any further. As far as Lee giving any information to the Russians while he was over there, even though he said he would if they had asked, apparently they weren't interested in it. When Lee got back from Russia, the way he talked about the Russian system, he didn't talk about it politically, in the sense that he was wrapped up in communism or Marxism. He started becoming more and more independent and out on his own because Mother was working all the time, no brothers around, no father figure around, no adult that he was acquainted with that he could rely on to and talk to. Gerald Hill.. Why did he turn to Marxism as a salve, as opposed to another form of religion? He was assuming everything was being recorded, and, unfortunately, it wasnt. Maybe the next time he went to the library, he would follow up on it, and say Well, lets really see what this is about. That to me is very plausible for him to do. After obtaining a hardship discharge from the Marines, Lee Harvey Oswald left the United States for the Soviet Union in 1959. But then, Oct. 31, we hear that hes in Russia. I wrote him back that, to my knowledge, nothing he has done warrants any charges, because they did not let him accomplish anything over there, i.e., the U.S. Embassy did not accept his citizenship rejection. Aline Mosby was one of the first women assigned to cover the Kremlin, There are no reviews yet. , As things progressed down the line the job didnt work out. The two girls grew up in a small Texas town, sheltered . Those are the indications that say he took some thought, some planning over a long period of time. How would he have reacted to that? It was wall-to-wall reporters, police officers, FBI, Secret Service. tapes & transcripts+credits+privacy policy But I think he was disappointed. Capture a web page as it appears now for use as a trusted citation in the future. . He was, in fact, an American citizen all the time, and still had the rights of the American citizen. He wants to "do like Hemingway." Later in the day, after driving into town with his two pet dogs and sending an emergency money order to one of his employees, Ruby walked to the nearby police headquarters, where he made his way to the basement via the Main Steet ramp. What he did after he left the building is known: bus ride, taxi ride, boardinghouse, pick up the pistol, leave, shoot the police officer. That influence was just tremendous on him. He said no, he wanted that one up there. He could project this type of image, and he did; he tried to. True, no one saw him actually pull the trigger on the president but his presence in the building was there. He had acquired the vernacular of radical politics. He did not and would not talk to any of the interrogators about anything of substance. Tragically, he accomplished that. Lee Harvey Oswald did not have any particular animus for John F. Kennedy. But he would look at it. Youve got all the physical evidence that ties together. Well, his concern was, was there anything that I was aware of that [there] were going to be charges placed against him from anybody? LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S COMPLETE AUGUST 1963 WDSU-TV INTERVIEW David Von Pein's JFK Channel 44.3K subscribers Subscribe 415 71K views 9 years ago Three months before he assassinated President. You've talked about Lee's character -- trying to do something, getting frustrated, doing something dramatic. The fact that he could put on a facade and pretend to be somebody he wasn't -- to me, it gets down to what happened later on. It maybe opened up some doors for him. Uploaded by Did he talk about the Russian system and the American system and comparing the two? He had the superficialities of radicalism, but that's what appealed to him: the sense of belonging, of being very serious. The fact that he could put on a facade and pretend to be somebody he wasnt to me, it gets down to what happened later on. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was he wanted to be accepted. What was going on there? Not surprisingly, as his novelty began to wear off, his interest in Minsk began to wear thin. The appeal to Lee of something like that Marxism, communism, socialism, would be something unique, something different -- not [an] everyday occurrence. The main thing was getting a job and a manuscript. He was what's convenient to be. We were away from Lee during the three years of military school, only seeing him during the summer vacations or holiday-type things. She has no control over him. The first thing he says is -- and he points to it -- "It's tapped." With John F. Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald, Nigel Barber, Raymond Burns. We were a burden. He wanted to get his manuscript published if anybody was interested. Although Marina declined to be interviewed for FRONTLINE's program, McMillan talks about the perplexing, troubling events of Oswald's life based on what Marina confided to her. Ive managed to keep it quiet. That was it. Lee's fantasy life, to me, became apparent in the 1948, 1949, 1950 period. John and I would be off doing other things. He finally got a job that wasn't exactly what he really wanted, but it was a start. You see him for a few days when he gets out [of the Marines]. Hed actually applied for Albert Schweitzers school in Switzerland, and been accepted for that summertime or fall semester. It's about escaping the status quo and achieving some kind of greatness, as it were. This was his grand experience at the time. This was unsettling. Industries Crime and. At what age Lee started gathering this, or sensing it, or hearing it and applying it to him, I don't know. The planning that Lee did probably at least extended all the way back to the time he was in Japan because of the clothes he purchased at the time, If it didnt work for Russia, he was going to stay in Europe anyway. It just didnt fit. New York City. He would tolerate anything for a little bit. While he does not see Oswald as a Soviet, CIA or FBI recruit, he is careful to point out many of the unanswered questions regarding Oswald's mysterious associations and possible ties to the mob. For Oswald, he never ever has a sense of home, or rootedness, and it fills him with this sense of rage, which he not surprisingly directs against his mother. He knew something they didn't know, and he would keep it to himself. As chief counsel to the 1977 House Select Committee on Assassinations, Blakey led the investigation into President John F. Kennedy's assassination, reexamining the evidence with a new forensics panel. The first thing he says is and he points to it Its tapped. I tell him it may or may not be. His mother had the same type of imagination. home+introduction+interviews+forum+twenty-four years+conspiracy ", A former litigator, Posner is a fulltime investigative writer. And not only that, but it offered immediate salvation, or immediate asylum. Consequently, people left it wide open. It features interviews with Rachel Oswald Porter and June Oswald Porter, the daughters of Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald, who were raised by their mother and their adoptive father, Kenneth Jess Porter. I didnt know but I think that was his posture all along, with the interrogators. He could be somebody from New York that knew a lot of things, somebody that could get around be somebody else. Very garrulous, very sexual, very clear about her objectives. I said, "If you told me everything you've done, it seems to me you have a case that you could perhaps get a reversal on that, that you did not do anything that they anticipated you done." What was his concern? Lee and Marina were having difficulties, just by being together -- I guess by being put in new circumstances and everything. We're talking seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. Tell me about his interest in the television show "I Led Three Lives" and what that says about him and his imagination. It sounds like Oswald's disillusionment stemmed as much from personal as political reasons. . He was in control. Aline Mosby was one of the first women assigned to cover the Kremlin, while stationed in Moscow in 1959 she interviewed a self-exiled Lee Harvey Oswald, who. He is the older brother of Lee Harvey Oswald, and a former Marine and salesman. This edition focuses on accused John F. Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, wondering whether he was a "lone gunman, conspirator, or patsy." . He played an awful lot of hooky up there. In his new book, The Interloper: Lee Harvey Oswald Inside the Soviet Union Peter Savodnik, a journalist who lived and worked in Moscow and has extensively traveled around the former Soviet Union, dives into the foreign life of America's most notorious assassin. But certainly by age three, he had the sense, I need to be someplace else. Mother would be putting him with a nanny, or a babysitter, or in an orphan home with us, just to get us out of her hair. Lee Harvey Oswald Shooting: Interview with Eyewitnesses - Reporters, Police (2012) Way Back 26.4K subscribers 439 185K views 8 years ago Later in the day, after driving into town with his two. He really wasnt. They've got your pistol. She is wanting to go back to Russia. He would talk about anything else. Our mother was Lees most important person in his life. When Lee came back, how did he react to visits from the FBI when they came and saw him here? In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy? Yes, I think that there is a process here, in the same way there had been a process in the Soviet Union, in the same way there'd been a process in the Marines, and the same way there'd been a process coursing through his adolescence. Were talking seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. They've gone to the extreme measures to prove that he owned that rifle. Skip to main content Due to a planned power outage on Friday, 1/14, between 8am-1pm PST, some services may be impacted. Apparently hed been planning this for a long time. Tell me about that, and what his attitude is and the kinds of things you talked about. ", I became kind of intense at that point, looking into his eyes. I said, If you told me everything youve done, it seems to me you have a case that you could perhaps get a reversal on that, that you did not do anything that they anticipated you done. I said, If that never came about, if you didnt really betray the country and you only attempted to do it and they didnt let you do it anyway legally, then it seems to me you have a basis. I said, We can look into it. Jack Ruby changed history with one bold, violent action: killing accused presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV two days after the November 22, 1963, murder of President John F. Kennedy. What did he say, and what were you trying to get out of him? We'll look into it.". Explore FRONTLINEs collected and ongoing reporting on Russia's war on Ukraine. I'd love to do that, but you cannot. He always enjoyed books, but then he started exploring other areas. When Lee is discharged, early discharge in September 1959, he returns to Fort Worth for about three days. He was toying with them. So consequently, he calls me up and he tells me that theyre moving to Dallas. One individual gave him a letter saying he could speak and write Russian at a particular level that he thought was real good. His comment was she is "too much like Maw." But he had said he was going to give the Russians any information he had, and it seemed like he did. . To me, you cant reach but one conclusion. He was in control. December 4, 1963: In an interview Lee Harvey Oswald's mother, Marguerite Oswald, says assumes her son is innocent and that President John F. Kennedy would be alive and so would her son if Oswald . Oswald grew up in very trying circumstances in the early part of his life. It was a game to him. The Dallas Police Department was utter chaos. True, no one saw him actually pull the trigger on the president but his presence in the building was there. It seemed like we were never in a location [more than] six or seven months, maybe a year at the most. There's a great deal of self-involvement, there's a great deal of desire to elevate himself, to become this world-historical figure. I mean, you're his brother; you would want to believe more than anyone. Now apparently, for whatever reasons or however they checked it out, they found out whatever he knew wasn't necessarily anything they'd be interested in. This is a struggle that has gone on with me for almost 30 years now. That's the way I read him at the time. Whether Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone to assassinate President John F. Kennedy has been the subject of countless articles, books, and movies. In November, 1959, as a reporter in Moscow, she had interviewed a twenty-year-old ex-Marine at the Metropole Hotel in Moscow named Lee Harvey Oswald, who'd announced he wanted to defect to. The job's not doing that good. He gave it to me either the first or second night to read. She clearly saw in Oswald a ticket to ride, an opportunity to leave Russia. Hes getting a better opportunity, he thinks, in Dallas, because its a bigger job market over there than what Fort Worth was at the time. He would awaken relatively early in his apartment, and he would walk about eight minutes to the radio factory where he worked in the experimental department, and he probably would have been there until late afternoon or early evening, ate dinner, he might have read a good bit -- he was fond of reading -- visited friends, gone to the conservatory or the opera, which was a short walk away from his apartment, and he probably would have retired early. He wasnt political. It was a terrible thing to look at. And you don't know what the Sam Hill is going on? He toyed with the interrogators down at the Dallas police station, all that weekend [after the assassination]. He was whats convenient to be. I tell him it may or may not be. I said, "We can look into it. Thompson's new book, "Last Second in Dallas", comes to a startling conclusion about Lee Harvey Oswald, who . When he returned to the United States, he didnt want to be a Russian. Convinced that his brother was solely responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Oswald offers details in this interview about Lee's formative years and young adult life, and describes how his brother's love of television shows on intrigue and espionage such as "I Led Three Lives," became the "training ground for his imagination." His plans, as we well know now, were already made to go to Russia, rather than to Cuba. OK?\"Another motive was put forth by Frank Sheeran, allegedly a hitman for the Mafia, in a conversation he had with the then-former Teamsters boss Jimmy Hoffa. He was making fun of how inept they were, and he was making fun of them all the time. What do you do with his actions? Why was he asking for this lawyer, John Abt, up in New York? So then what happens, and how does he get to Dallas? Lee had high hopes when he first got back as to what he was going to do. " I'm just a patsy!"Lee Harvey Oswald Oswald the Assassin? His sense of dislocation, of alienation -- this sense that he's in the wrong place. Historically in his life, it was always done by himself. They didnt know for sure if he was an agent or not. You can't set that aside just because he is saying, "I'm a patsy." The jobs not doing that good. Why do you think that so many Americans still cannot accept that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin of John F. Kennedy. So then what happens, and how does he get to Dallas? This was something all his own. Advertisement Read the story | More coverage. Additional funding is provided by the Abrams Foundation; the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation; Park Foundation; the Heising-Simons Foundation; and the FRONTLINE Journalism Fund with major support from Jon and Jo Ann Hagler on behalf of the Jon L. Hagler Foundation, and additional support from Koo and Patricia Yuen. Consequently, people left it wide open. That was a training ground [for] his imagination. Similarly, the committee believed it was less likely that Ruby entered the police basement without assistance, even though the assistance may have been provided with no knowledge of Ruby's intentions The committee was troubled by the apparently unlocked doors along the stairway route and the removal of security guards from the area of the garage nearest the stairway shortly before the shooting There is also evidence that the Dallas Police Department withheld relevant information from the Warren Commission concerning Ruby's entry to the scene of the Oswald transfer.When Ruby was arrested immediately after the shooting, he told several witnesses that he helped the city of Dallas \"redeem\" itself in the eyes of the public, and that Oswald's death would spare \"Mrs. She had been overbearing or whatever. He planned by himself, he executed by himself, he failed by himself. He was using his own imagination. If it didn't work for Russia, he was going to stay in Europe anyway. But Lee had that same personality type. But he finally said, "Brother, you won't find anything there.". NL. They wasnt going to convince him to say something. Biden Should Remove Cuba from List of State Sponsors of Terrorism, Descendants of Slaveholder Donor Denounce Law School Name Change, How Social Media and Community Schools Could Fill in Gaps Teaching Black History, American Girl Dolls Declare the 1990s Ancient History, Review: DeSantis's Book is a Campaign Tome Written by ChatGPT, Reconsidering Phillis Wheatley's Place in the Revolutionary Era, Philosopher Lewis Gordon's Impact on Black Jewish History, Quintard Taylor's Black Past Project Fights Erasure of History, Review: The Unfinished Business of "Double V", One Reason to Confirm National Archivist Fast? She had certain characteristics that were so much like Lee: the time and circumstances always seemed to be against her; the world owed her a living; she wanted to be somebody. He wasn't political. That distinction belongs to my CBS colleague Bob. But at the same time, he always was trying to get away from her. It just didn't fit. It just floors me, it floored me then. That's where he started doing a lot of reading and everything. In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy? You've got the backyard picture. ", home+introduction+interviews+forum+twenty four years+conspiracy Lees fantasy life, to me, became apparent in the 1948, 1949, 1950 period. The big question is why. Lees trying. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was he wanted to be accepted. After Lee's return, approximately two weeks, in the latter part of June 1962, he gets a call from one of the FBI agents -- I believe that was Mr. Fain -- in wanting to have a meeting with him. It just floors me, it floored me then. I think this was passed on to Lee. He had tapped into or been drawn to the emotions which that politics helped to foment, but did he have a deep understanding of how revolutions unfold, and the relationship between the proletariat and the means of production? Among his nine books is the bestseller, Case Closed (1993), which concludes that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. on May 8, 2016. We were a burden. But he had prepared answers and statements, anticipating reporters either at the ship or some place down the line on the return. In this interview, Posner talks . Historically in his life, it was always done by himself. You could tell by the tone of the language, not that we could understand the Russian language, but the tone and the facial expressions that they were having an argument. I think it's fair to say the Kennedy assassination had very little to do with John F. Kennedy. Did she let you know and did she let him know that the kids were a burden? What did he do? He wants to do like Hemingway. He wants to get some experience and write about it. I mean, they had asked the wrong man. Oswald had lived in Russia for three years at the height of the Cold War.This video, culled from NBC-TV's 11/22/63 coverage, includes Oswald's brief television appearance on New Orleans station WDSU-TV in August of 1963.Portions of this TV interview can be seen in various documentaries and films, but rarely is the entire (but brief) interview ever shown. Well look into it.. Hes thinking about going to Cuba. But my goodness, this is completely out of the ballpark. . I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. But he would look at it. And his attempted murder of Edwin Walker is clearly about that. Radio Talk Show Host, Bob Allen But he finally said, Brother, you wont find anything there.. They even asked me if Id ever been an agent of the federal government or the CIA. I said, What did you tell them? He says, Well, dont you know? and he just laughed. When he first approached the divided cubicles and I picked up the telephone on my side, he picked up his. That's not to suggest it was in any way any less than that, but it's just that we refuse to see it in its true light. Marina had gone over there to live with somebody until he got established over there. He was relaxed, but at about the second day, he starts talking about where he's going. [Last Name] 1 Dawson C. Mills [4/26/2017] Ghosts of Mississippi Essay Late on the night of June 13th 1963, Myrlie Evers and her three children were together in the bedroom watching President ( at the time ) John F. Kennedy give a speech on civil rights. One, we tend to think of Kennedy as having been so great and really all-powerful, almost mythological, and at the same time we tend to think of Oswald as so low, that it seems unfathomable that somebody so low, so inconsequential, could topple someone so great. This type of thing would interest him, whether he went to an art museum or a library or a movie theater or just walked around and saw sights. He gave it to me either the first or second night to read. Three, maybe more fundamentally, I think that modern man, especially in modern America, is just congenitally incapable of making sense of tragedy. I asked him, I said, "Lee, what in the Sam Hill is going on?" But things were tight at that time. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. All these ups and downs he's having, he keeps trying to get up and make it at some level, but he's not succeeding. Walker and, still chewing his cigar, Detective Paul Bentley, on Nov. 22, 1963. He's deeply unhappy and he stumbles on this whole world that stands in direct opposition to the world that he comes from. Learn more It's cable reimagined No DVR space. There are any number of possible outcomes -- or temples, so to speak -- he could have turned to. His fellow Marines called him Oswaldskovich, because he never shut up about his admiration for communism or the Soviet Union. What do you say to people who are so convinced or are trying to believe in his innocence? I would love to be able to say that Lee was not involved in any way whatsoever, or much less to the extent that I believe that he was. He said no, that wasn't necessary, he could take care of it. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. Saltar al contenido principal.es. If you had to take a guess about when he got his political beliefs, how he was introduced to Marxism, what would you guess? Youve got all kinds of documented evidence. You'll receive access to exclusive information and early alerts about our documentaries and investigations. You don't think that there was any possibility that he was on some mission when he went to Russia? That's the shocker. He was assuming everything was being recorded, and, unfortunately, it wasn't. Everything is deteriorating. But this had nothing to do with an intellectual or ideological coming to terms with some kind of intellectual maturation, although Oswald tried to explain it that way. This is mind over heart. I anticipated, and I said to the family, "He'll be back within a year." Tell me about that, and what his attitude is and the kinds of things you talked about. Tell me about his growing problems with Marina. So he thought hed get a post office box that would be a permanent-type thing. Saturday, Nov. 23, 1963. This was driven entirely by his own biography and history. FRONTLINE reports from Iraq on the miscalculations and mistakes behind the brutal rise of ISIS. NARRATOR: Within two hours, the police had arrested 24-year-old Lee Harvey Oswald. He went the following day, had the meeting. Did he talk about the Russian system and the American system and comparing the two? Even though Oswald says in his diary that Marina was surprised when he informed her he wanted to go back to the United States, she never puts any resistance. I mean, youre his brother; you would want to believe more than anyone. ISIS' growing foothold in Afghanistan is captured on film. I think theyre inseparable. And why it wasnt stopped sooner. Among his nine books is the bestseller, Case Closed (1993), which concludes that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. WDSU-TV interviews Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963 when he was living in New Orleans. He's on a downhill run. What would it be? Can you summarize what the atmosphere was like there that Saturday, and what you made of it? By Melissa De Witte Those alive when John F. Kennedy was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, remember where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news the president had been shot. He says that the "hard physical evidence" from the assassination leads him to one conclusion: "The Warren Commission was correct." Hed made some contacts within the Russian community in Fort Worth and in Dallas. You could tell by the tone of the language, not that we could understand the Russian language, but the tone and the facial expressions that they were having an argument. While in police custody, Oswald was murdered by Jack Ruby. But the facts are there. [To those who say,] He didnt own a rifle. We know he owned a rifle. Convinced that his brother was solely responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Oswald offers details in this interview about Lee's formative years and young adult life, and. Of course, we can't extricate ourselves permanently or perfectly from wherever it is we come from, no matter how much we try, and we are always functions of our place, even if we wish not to be. If somebody passed out a leaflet on the street that contained a political statement for Marxism or communism or what have you, and if Lee had not run across that before, I could envision him looking at it, keeping it and saying, "Well, I wonder what this is all about." I think the way Lee learned New York was just apply himself to it. . As this realization deepens and becomes more omnipresent and more unavoidable, he feels a greater and greater need to get out, to escape. But she certainly conveyed it to John and I at very early ages. It was always separation, separation, separation. We talked about family matters. We talked about family matters. The other thing was he wanted to get settled with the job. Marina was upbeat on it. Here was a start. He just wanted to see what he could do about getting it done. He moves into his own apartment and everything. He toyed with people like that. Those are the indications that say he took some thought, some planning over a long period of time. He was ready. Could you describe that process of disillusionment? They didn't finalize that. I think he just liked the atmosphere that you could do anything that you wanted to do, that you could imagine you could do. I couldn't believe it. Arriving in Moscow on October 16, he declared that he wished to renounce his U.S. citizenship and become a Soviet national. ES. He didn't elaborate on that. FRONTLINE: WHO WAS LEE HARVEY OSWALD? To try to understand why Lee did what he did on Nov. 22 is a cumulative effect of all his past plans and efforts and failures. . It's there; put it to rest. If we go and get right down to the bottom line, we have to say, really and truly, in all candor, [she did] a lousy job, a lousy job.