Son of Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin #124. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Niall of the Nine Hostages - Celtic Wedding Rings My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? [8]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. Among the plunder captured by the band of warriors dispatched by Ireland's King Niall of the Nine Hostages was a 16-year-old boy named Succat. Oh, got it. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. [13], In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. The story then becomes confused. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men [8] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. [6], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[4] and Francis J. Byrne[3]:7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. 100% Irish? 1 / 5. children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. The M222 pattern is a lot rarer in the south of the island. [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Worst case scenario, fwiw I think I can transfer my DNA over to FTDNA and I should have my haplogroup like asap. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. 1 Reply Ziff-A-Dee-Dew-Law 4 yr. ago After obtaining obedience from the Picts, his next foreign raid was into Britain. One day, the five brothers being in the smith's forge when it took fire, they were commanded to run and save what they could. This person appears in many published genealogies, but the facts I have found so far are vague.The earliest history and dates for Ireland are legendary and speculative. France, killed on the banks of River Loire. 452. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. SidmartinBio", "The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon", "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", "Show Somerled People | Clan Donald USA, Inc", The genetic imprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages, "If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve", National Center for Biotechnology Information, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. Geneticists have dated this However, the genetic evidence of the study does seem to show that the [11] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. If Irish Claim Nobility,Science May Approve - The New York Times He ruled Ireland in the fifth century and was said to have consolidated his power by leading raids on the Roman Empire, taking hostages from rival royal families in Britain and . repulsive, with green teeth and nails, matted unkempt hair, a decidedly crooked Haplogroup R-CTS11824 Niall of the Nine Hostages : r/23andme In Italy the Irish were primarily found in Milan and Naples - deployed there by Spain. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. provide water, but she wants a kiss in return. Most of the Milesian kings ruled from Tara. II, The History of Ireland by Geoffrey Keating, "The Laud Genealogies and Tribal Histories", "A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland. part of France). The signature is especially century. According to legend, Niall was a warrior Three of his sons founded kingdoms in Ulster (collectively the Northern Ui Neill), other sons founded kingdom in the Irish midlands (the Southern Ui Neill). haplotype likely originated in the 2nd millennium BC, long before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group even if Niall had been a historical figure. Mong Fionn was a bitter, jealous and ambitious woman, who set her heart upon having her son, Brian, succeed his father as Ard Righ. latter a misleading term that should not be construed as meaning the bearer had Copyright Claire Santry 2008-2023 Irish-Genealogy-Toolkit.com. Ireland's five ancient provinces (Connaught, Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Killed in Battle. Geni requires JavaScript! Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and implied this was associated with Niall's dynasty. M222 signature to the mid-5th century when Niall of the Nine Hostages may Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. Although its remarkable that nearly 1 in 10 Americans might say Kiss Me Im Irish! on St. Patricks day, its not clear if all these people actually have Irish ancestors or if they simply feel an affinity for corned beef and green beer. He is presumed to have been a real person, but most of the information about him that has come down to us is legendary. People move. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. As Niall was his father's favorite, Mong Fionn did not rest until she had outcast him and his mother, Carthann, and made Carthann her menial, carrying water to the court. [9], While Niall is High King, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. Niall and his dynasty. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Daddy of Ireland: The The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. and our The less [3]:70, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Eoghain, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Understanding Niall of the Nine Hostages & Descendants - Facebook Irelands most popular baby names of 2022 - by county! . [4 ] A poem by the 11th century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[4 ][1 2] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. [8 ], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. "One of the greatest high kings was Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose reign began in AD 379. the sea between France and England. Niall married Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH. Could I claim that (a) it's an Irish haplgroup, (b) that it can be traced back to the warring clans of the Ui Neill dynasty? The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this marker, and concluded that these men are patrilineal descendants of Niall. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. Cookie Notice Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent's chieftains. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. Niall of the Nine Hostages, One of the Most Fruitful Kings in History Moore et al. Ireland, carry a specific Y-DNA pattern called the M222 sub-clade. His reign was epochal. Niall and the Nine Hostages : 23andme - reddit.com Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. Niall was famed for his raids on Britain along with his brothers and sons. They should really stop doing that, the Niall of the Nine Hostages haplogroup is actually R1b-L21 (M222) which is way downstream . Throughout the 1600 and 1700s, thousands of Irish men of fighting age would migrate to Europe as 'Soldiers for Hire' to fight in various wars. If you are an exact match, your profile in FTDNA will have a green graphic that states your DNA is an exact match to Niall. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The are Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster, the Britons, Picts, Saxons, and Morini of Gaul. Legend has it that it was Niall of the Nine Hostages who, on a raid in Wales, captured a young slave and brought him to Ireland. Their father, who was looking on (and who, say some, designedly caused the fire, to test his sons), observed with interest Neill's distinctiveness of character, his good sense and good judgment. Genealogical pedigrees dating back to the 5th century, when Laedhaire's children and grandchildren were around, are considered accurate. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. Adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedon, a young Niall Nogiallach is out Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. People wanting to join this group must be managing a Ydna test from a male relative who has tested at FTdna for a Ydna test and got the little symbol that says they descend from Niall and The Nine Hostages. [13] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Check out our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/wiki/index#wiki_faq_.28frequently_asked_questions.29)! Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" was one of the greatest Irish kings. Uncommon Paternal Haplogroup For Italian? : r/23andme The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. Niall of the Nine Hostages Irish leader Learn about this topic in these articles: association with Conn In Conn Ctchathach to be the ancestor of Niall of the Nine Hostages (reigned 379-405), who founded the U Nill, the greatest dynasty in Irish history. Geoghegan - Wikipedia Copyright 2023 Irish Studio LLC All rights reserved. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). [23] Origin of his epithet[edit] There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O The haplogroup that is associated with Niall of the Nine Hostages is M222, which is part of M269 but definitely not the same thing. My R1b P-311 comes from Germany how about German King 23andme? His mother appears to have had much influence over his elderly father which helped Niall gain supremacy over his elder half brothers from Connacht. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. However, M222 is now thought to predate Niall by hundreds of years, so even if it were true that this semi-mythical king really was M222, he wouldn't be the progenitor of it. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century.